It came to me as a flash, rather amusing, that Karl Marx had once been sympathetic
to Asia with his concept of the Asian Mode of Production. As China today is the great success
story of Communism, might it not be what inspired him to reason in that direction to begin
with...
Copilot:
Help me find a reference to the 'Asiatic mode of production' in the works of Karl Marx...
Karl Marx introduced the concept of the Asiatic Mode of Production (AMP) in the early 1850s, particularly in his writings on India between 1852 and 1858. He described it as a system where land was communally owned, agriculture and manufacturing were closely linked, and commodity production was weak. Marx and Engels later moved away from the AMP concept, focusing instead on four primary modes of production: tribal, ancient, feudal, and capitalist.
If you're looking for direct references, you might find relevant discussions in Marx's articles on India and his Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy, where he outlines different modes of production. You can also explore Lawrence Krader's book on the AMP, which compiles sources and critiques related to Marx's writings.
Would you like help finding specific passages from Marx's works?
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DeepSeek:
Help me appreciate the notion of 'Asiatic Mode of Production' in the works ...
The concept of the "Asiatic Mode of Production" (AMP) is a fascinating but controversial idea that appears in the works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, later debated by Marxist theorists. It refers to a distinct socioeconomic system that Marx believed characterized certain pre-capitalist Asian societies, differing from European feudalism or classical slavery.
Key References in Marx & Engels' Works
Marx’s Grundrisse (1857-58)
Marx contrasts the AMP with European feudalism, describing societies where:
The state (often a despotic ruler) controls large-scale irrigation and public works.
Village communities are largely self-sufficient but pay surplus to a central authority.
Private landownership is weak; instead, the state acts as the supreme landlord.
Marx’s Capital, Vol. 1 (1867)
Briefly mentions the AMP in discussing pre-capitalist economic forms, noting how communal village structures coexisted with centralized state control.
Marx & Engels’ Correspondence
In letters, they discuss how societies like India and China lacked the dynamic class struggles of Europe, leading to "stagnation" (a claim later criticized as Eurocentric).
Engels’ The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State (1884)
Expands on Marx’s notes, framing the AMP as a system where the state dominates due to geographic and economic necessities (e.g., hydraulic management).
Why It’s Controversial
Orientalist Overtones?
Some scholars (e.g., Edward Said, Karl Wittfogel) argue the AMP reinforces stereotypes of "Eastern despotism" versus "European progress."
Marx’s view of "unchanging" Asian societies has been challenged by historians who note dynamic changes in China, India, and the Islamic world.
Debates in 20th-Century Marxism
Soviet Marxists initially rejected the AMP (seeing it as undermining the universal stages of history).
Later thinkers (e.g., Karl Wittfogel in Oriental Despotism, 1957) linked it to "hydraulic empires," but his work was criticized for being overly deterministic.
Modern Reappraisals
Some scholars use the AMP to analyze state-dominated economies (e.g., ancient Egypt, Inca Empire, or even modern bureaucratic socialism).
Others see it as a precursor to discussions of "tributary modes of production" (as in world-systems theory).
How to Appreciate the References
As a Historical Debate – The AMP shows how Marxists grappled with non-European societies.
As a Critique of Eurocentrism – Later Marxists (e.g., Samir Amin) revised the AMP to avoid colonial biases.
As a Tool for Analysis – Some still find it useful for studying centralized pre-capitalist states.
Would you like deeper analysis on a specific text or thinker?
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Closer to home, have been reflecting on the fate of the Green Party, bumped from
the Leaders' Debate although they are running hundreds of adult quite friendly-looking
candidates all over the country. Granted their avowed platform often seems more
dreamy than realistic: more doctors, non-polluting economy...And pray tell, how do we
get there?? They had two MPs in the last House with 4% of the vote. Clearly, they would
be the great winners in a proportional allocation of seats!
Had a chat with Merlin about it all, last night. Below:
Canada federal election 2025: how many candidates are the Greens running?
The Green Party of Canada has confirmed 232 candidates for the 2025 federal election. This number is fewer than the total 343 electoral districts across the country. The party made a strategic decision to not run candidates in certain ridings, which impacted their overall candidate count, leading to significant scrutiny regarding their participation in the electoral debates.
https://www.debates-debats.ca/en/45/participation-criteria/decision-green-party/
...
How many MPs did the Greens have in the last parliament?
The Green Party had two Members of Parliament (MPs) in the last Parliament.
How many candidates did they run in that election, to end up with two?
In the 2021 federal election, the Green Party ran 307 candidates across Canada.
What kind of voting system would give them a better chance? What percentage of the popular vote did they pull in that election?
A proportional representation (PR) voting system would likely improve the Green Party's chances of winning more seats . In the 2021 election, the Green Party received 2.33% of the popular vote .
First Past the Post (FPTP) System
Canada currently uses a First Past the Post (FPTP) electoral system . In FPTP, the candidate with the most votes in each riding wins, regardless of whether they receive a majority of the votes . This system often leads to disproportionality, where a party's seat share does not accurately reflect its popular vote share .
Proportional Representation (PR) System
Proportional representation (PR) systems aim to allocate seats in proportion to the votes received . There are several types of PR systems, but they generally ensure that a party winning, for example, 10% of the national vote, would receive approximately 10% of the seats in parliament .
How PR Benefits the Green Party
Fairer Representation: Under FPTP, the Green Party's vote is spread out across many ridings, but they may not win enough votes in any single riding to gain a seat . With PR, their total vote share would be translated more directly into seats .
Reduced Strategic Voting: FPTP encourages strategic voting, where voters support a candidate who is more likely to win, even if they are not their first choice . PR reduces the need for strategic voting, allowing voters to support the Green Party without fear that their vote will be "wasted" .
Increased Viability: A PR system could make the Green Party more viable, attracting more voters and donors, as the party would have a clearer path to gaining a significant number of seats .
Examples
In the 2004 election, the Green Party won about 4% of the vote but did not win a proportionate percentage of seats .
The 2021 election saw the Conservatives win nearly 2% more of the popular vote than the Liberals; however, the Liberals won significantly more seats . This illustrates how FPTP can lead to skewed results .
The Electoral Reform Society has noted that FPTP has failed to give the most popular Canadian party the most seats, highlighting the disproportionality inherent in the system .
The Green Party platform is very general and wishfull; is this how Green Parties in Europe present themselves?
Green parties in Europe generally present detailed policy platforms, though the specifics can vary by country and political context .
Detailed Platforms
European Green parties typically advocate for policies related to:
Environmental Protection: This includes transitioning to renewable energy, protecting biodiversity, and implementing sustainable agriculture practices .
Social Justice: Many Green parties support social democratic economic policies, such as reducing income inequality, improving access to healthcare and education, and promoting human rights .
Economic Reforms: They often propose reforms to promote sustainable economic growth, support green jobs, and address climate change through economic incentives and regulations .
Nuances and Variations
Coalition Building: Green parties frequently form coalitions with other left-wing parties to achieve their goals . This requires them to have detailed and realistic policy proposals that can be negotiated and integrated into coalition agreements .
"Realists" vs. "Fundamentalists": Within Green parties, there can be a division between "realists," who are willing to compromise to have a say in government, and "fundamentalists," who adhere more strictly to the party's core principles . The balance between these factions can influence the level of detail and pragmatism in the party's platform .
Country-Specific Issues: The specific issues and policy priorities can vary depending on the country. For example, Green parties in Eastern Europe may focus on issues related to post-communist transition and democratic reforms .
Examples of European Green Parties
Germany: The German Green Party (Bündnis 90/Die Grünen) has become a prominent force in German politics, even supplying the foreign minister . They emphasize infrastructure development, environmental protection (including phasing out combustion engines and expanding renewable energy), and social policies such as a mandatory minimum pension .
European Greens: The European Greens bring together national parties from across Europe that share green values and political priorities, such as climate, environment, social justice, and democracy . They actively develop common positions on various issues to move Europe forward .
While some critics may view Green party platforms as idealistic, many European Green parties present detailed and actionable policies that address specific environmental, social, and economic challenges .
How do voter perceptions of Green parties differ across Europe?
Voter perceptions of Green parties vary considerably across Europe, influenced by factors like national political cultures, the salience of environmental issues, and the specific platforms and strategies of each Green party .
Factors Influencing Voter Perceptions
National Political Culture: In some countries, like Germany and Scandinavia, there is a strong tradition of environmental awareness and support for Green values . In others, environmental issues may be less prominent, leading to lower support for Green parties .
Economic Conditions: During economic downturns, voters may prioritize economic stability over environmental concerns, which can negatively impact Green parties . Conversely, growing awareness of the economic opportunities associated with green technologies can boost their appeal .
Coalition Potential: Green parties that are seen as viable coalition partners may attract more pragmatic voters who want to influence policy . However, entering coalitions can also lead to internal tensions and a loss of support from more radical environmentalists .
Party Leadership and Messaging: The image and communication skills of Green party leaders can significantly influence voter perceptions . Effective messaging that connects environmental issues to everyday concerns, such as health and economic well-being, can broaden their appeal .
Regional Variations
Western Europe: In countries like Germany, Austria, and the Benelux nations, Green parties have achieved significant electoral success and are often seen as mainstream political actors . They tend to be viewed as competent and pragmatic, with detailed policy platforms .
Northern Europe: Scandinavian countries also have strong Green movements, with a focus on social justice and sustainable development . Green parties in this region are often seen as reliable coalition partners with a broad appeal beyond environmental issues .
Southern Europe: Green parties in Southern Europe often face more challenges due to economic instability and weaker environmental awareness . They may be perceived as less relevant to voters' immediate concerns, such as employment and economic growth .
Eastern Europe: In post-communist countries, Green parties have had mixed success . They often struggle to overcome a legacy of environmental neglect and may be viewed as less credible than established parties . However, they can also benefit from growing concerns about pollution and unsustainable development .
Specific Examples
Germany: The German Green Party has successfully positioned itself as a pragmatic and influential force in German politics, appealing to a broad range of voters . They are seen as competent on both environmental and economic issues .
France: The French Green Party has experienced more volatility, with periods of success followed by setbacks . Voter perceptions are influenced by the party's internal divisions and its ability to form effective alliances .
Eastern Europe: Green parties in countries like Poland and Hungary often struggle to gain traction due to the dominance of conservative and nationalist parties . They may be perceived as idealistic and out of touch with the concerns of ordinary voters .
Voter perceptions of Green parties in Europe are shaped by a complex interplay of factors, including national political cultures, economic conditions, and the specific strategies and messaging of each party. .
So they have work to do, deciding on actual concrete initiatives they would deliver,
finding allies in other parties, deciding among themselves how they would list
candidates in the eventuality of voting reform. European Greens are amongst the
busiest people in government.
And those debates might have been a bit more hopeful for us all with their presence...
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