Monday, January 26, 2026

Overvalued

                                                                                 


Charging Bull(1989), seen as a symbol of the New York Financial District


Bull and Bear(1985), commisionned for the 400th anniversary of the Frankfurt Stock Exchange

In a bull market, prices are rising; in a bear market, they are going down. Being 'bullish' often means

forcing prices up because of overvaluation...

*     *     *

Copilot:

Is the American dollar overvalued (I have read, very overvalued)?

Yes — most major 2025–2026 analyses agree the U.S. dollar is overvalued, even after a sharp decline in 2025. Multiple banks and research groups describe it as still above fair value on fundamental models, though the degree of overvaluation varies.

๐Ÿ“‰ What the latest research says
๐ŸŸฆ 1. ABN AMRO (Nov 2025): “Substantially overvalued”
Their fundamental FX model shows the USD significantly above fair value.
Even after a 6% trade‑weighted drop in 2025, they still classify it as overvalued.
They expect further weakening due to cyclical and structural pressures.

๐ŸŸฆ 2. Morningstar (Dec 2025): “Still overvalued relative to most global currencies”
Despite a nearly 10% fall in the DXY through September 2025, Morningstar says the USD remains overvalued.
Fiscal concerns and reduced confidence in U.S. policy contributed to the decline, but valuation remains stretched.

๐ŸŸฆ 3. TD Economics (Jan 2026): Overvalued, but not dramatically
They note the USD weakened ~8–10% in 2025 but is still close to long‑term averages on a trade‑weighted basis.
They see additional downside of ~3% into 2026.
Their tone is more moderate: not “very overvalued,” but still somewhat above fair value.

๐ŸŸฆ 4. Morgan Stanley (Aug 2025): Overvaluation unwinding
They describe 2025 as the biggest USD drop in 50+ years (≈11% in H1).
They still expect another 10% decline by end of 2026, implying the dollar remains overvalued relative to fundamentals.
                                                                        
                                                                                     

Consensus:
The USD is overvalued, even after a major correction.
The degree ranges from moderate (TD) to significant (ABN AMRO, Morningstar).
Most analysts expect further weakening into 2026.

๐Ÿงฉ Why is it still overvalued?
Across reports, the main drivers are:
Structural U.S. deficits (fiscal + current account)
Policy uncertainty (Fed independence concerns, tariff headlines)
Global diversification away from USD assets (slow but ongoing)
Delayed effects of tariffs on growth and employment
Safe‑haven premium that keeps the USD stronger than fundamentals justify

If you want, I can also:
Compare USD valuation to CAD, EUR, JPY specifically
Explain how “fair value” is calculated (PPP, FEER, BEER models)
Look at implications for commodities, gold, or your local CAD purchasing power
Just tell me where you want to go next.


How is fair value calculated?

Fair value in foreign exchange isn’t a single number — it’s a family of models, each capturing a different economic mechanism. Analysts usually triangulate across several of them because each one highlights a different “anchor” for a currency.

A clean way to see it is to break the major models into three groups: price‑based, flow‑based, and structural.

๐Ÿงฎ 1. Purchasing Power Parity (PPP)
What it measures: Long‑run price levels.
Core idea: A currency is fairly valued when a basket of goods costs the same in both countries once converted at the exchange rate.
                                                                                  

Strengths
Very long‑run anchor
Good for identifying extreme misvaluations
Weaknesses
Useless for short‑run forecasting
Doesn’t account for capital flows, interest rates, productivity, or trade structure
Example
If U.S. prices rise faster than Eurozone prices, PPP says the USD should weaken over time.

๐Ÿ”„ 2. FEER (Fundamental Equilibrium Exchange Rate)
What it measures: The exchange rate that balances the current account at a sustainable level.
Core logic
Every country has a “sustainable” current account balance (e.g., −2% of GDP).
FEER finds the exchange rate that would produce that balance, given elasticities of imports/exports.
Strengths
Connects currency value to real trade flows
Used by IMF and central banks
Weaknesses
Requires many assumptions
Sensitive to estimates of “sustainable” current account

๐Ÿ“Š 3. BEER (Behavioral Equilibrium Exchange Rate)
What it measures: How the exchange rate behaves relative to economic fundamentals.
Typical variables
Productivity differentials
Terms of trade
Real interest rate differentials
Net foreign asset position
Commodity prices (for exporters like CAD, AUD, NOK)

How it works
Economists run regressions to estimate how these fundamentals historically influence the real exchange rate. The “fair value” is the rate implied by today’s fundamentals.
Strengths
Captures real‑world drivers
Good medium‑term indicator
Weaknesses
Model‑dependent
Can shift as relationships evolve

๐Ÿงญ 4. DEER (Desired Equilibrium Exchange Rate)
A variant of FEER that optimizes the exchange rate to achieve a target current account balance.
Used more in policy circles than in markets.

๐Ÿ“ˆ 5. Market‑based valuation models
These are used heavily by banks.
Examples
Real Effective Exchange Rate (REER) vs long‑run average
Interest rate parity models
Risk‑premium models (e.g., VIX, global risk appetite)
Flow models (portfolio flows, reserve accumulation)
These don’t define “fair value” philosophically — they infer it from historical behavior.

๐ŸŸฆ Why this matters for the USD
When analysts say the USD is “overvalued,” they usually mean:
PPP: U.S. price levels are high relative to trading partners
BEER: U.S. interest rates and risk premia kept the USD stronger than fundamentals justify
FEER: U.S. current account deficit is too large to be consistent with this exchange rate
                                                  
                                                                                  

So the “overvaluation” is not one number — it’s a convergence of signals.
If you want, I can walk through:
What each model says specifically about USD vs CAD,
How much the USD is overvalued under each method,
Or which model tends to be most accurate in practice.


By how much is the USD overvalued in each model?

Let’s map this out cleanly. Because each valuation model captures a different economic mechanism, they rarely give the same number — but they do cluster. Below is the consensus range from major institutions (IMF, OECD, Morningstar, ABN AMRO, Morgan Stanley, TD, BIS research) as of late‑2025/early‑2026.

These are ranges, not single points, because each institution publishes slightly different estimates.

๐Ÿ“Š USD Overvaluation by Model (2025–2026 estimates)

๐Ÿงฎ 1. PPP (Purchasing Power Parity)
Typical estimate: +10% to +20% overvalued
OECD PPP tables usually show the USD 10–15% too strong vs EUR, CAD, GBP.
Against JPY, PPP sometimes shows 20–30% overvaluation, but Japan is a special case (structural deflation, productivity differences).
PPP tends to give the largest misvaluation numbers because it ignores capital flows and interest rates.
Interpretation:
PPP says the USD buys more goods than it “should” relative to other advanced economies.

๐Ÿ”„ 2. FEER (Fundamental Equilibrium Exchange Rate)
Typical estimate: +5% to +15% overvalued
FEER models ask: What exchange rate would bring the U.S. current account to a sustainable level?
With the U.S. running a current account deficit around 3% of GDP, FEER models generally imply the USD needs to weaken 5–15% to restore balance.
Interpretation:
The USD is too strong for the U.S. to maintain a sustainable external balance.

๐Ÿ“ˆ 3. BEER (Behavioral Equilibrium Exchange Rate)
Typical estimate: +5% to +12% overvalued
BEER models incorporate fundamentals: productivity, interest rate differentials, terms of trade, net foreign assets.
Because U.S. interest rates were high in 2023–2024, BEER showed less overvaluation then.
As rates fell in 2025, BEER estimates shifted toward moderate overvaluation.
Interpretation:
Given today’s fundamentals, the USD is stronger than its historical relationship with those fundamentals would predict.

๐Ÿ“‰ 4. REER vs long‑run average (market model)
Typical estimate: +5% to +10% overvalued
The real effective exchange rate (REER) is still above its 20‑year average.
After the 2025 decline, the USD is no longer at extreme highs, but still above equilibrium.
Interpretation:
Relative to its own history, the USD remains somewhat expensive.

๐Ÿงญ 5. Risk‑premium & flow models
Typical estimate: +3% to +8% overvalued
These models look at global risk appetite, capital flows, and U.S. rate spreads.
As U.S. yields fell and global risk appetite normalized in 2025, these models show the USD drifting back toward fair value — but still a bit rich.
Interpretation:
The USD still carries a “safe‑haven premium.”
                                                                                        


Consensus:
The USD is overvalued, but not uniformly.
Most models cluster around +5% to +15%, with PPP giving the highest numbers.

If you want, I can go deeper:
Break down USD vs CAD, USD vs EUR, or USD vs JPY specifically
Show how each model would value the USD if U.S. deficits shrink or rates change
Explain which model tends to be most accurate for commodity‑linked currencies like CAD
Just tell me which direction you want to explore next.

Clearly, the USD being the world reserve currency has worked to keep valuation high. Explain this aspect to me; what mechanisms are thus set in motion.

The reserve‑currency effect is one of the most powerful — and least intuitive — forces keeping the U.S. dollar stronger than its fundamentals would normally justify. Once you unpack the mechanics, you see why the USD can stay “too strong” for decades without collapsing, and why most valuation models consistently show it as overvalued.

Here’s the clean, structural picture.

๐ŸŒ 1. Global demand for USD creates a permanent bid under the currency

Because the USD is the world’s reserve currency, foreign governments, central banks, corporations, and financial institutions must hold dollars for:

International trade invoicing

Commodity pricing (oil, metals, food)

Debt issuance

FX reserves

Safe‑haven storage

Global banking liquidity

This creates structural, non‑cyclical demand for USD assets.

Even when U.S. fundamentals weaken, the world still needs dollars.

Effect:

A constant global bid keeps the USD stronger than fair value.


๐Ÿฆ 2. Foreign central banks accumulate U.S. Treasuries

Reserve currency status means central banks hold large amounts of U.S. government debt.

Mechanism:

1. A country runs a trade surplus with the U.S.

2. It receives dollars.

3. It recycles those dollars into U.S. Treasuries.

4. This pushes Treasury yields down and the USD up.

This is sometimes called vendor financing: the world lends the U.S. money so the U.S. can keep buying the world’s goods.

Effect:

Persistent foreign buying of Treasuries keeps the USD overvalued and U.S. interest rates lower than they would otherwise be.


๐Ÿ’ณ 3. Global trade invoicing locks in USD usage

Even when two non‑U.S. countries trade with each other (e.g., Brazil ↔ South Korea), the transaction is often denominated in USD.

Why?

Deep liquidity

Stable legal system

Predictable settlement infrastructure

Network effects (everyone uses USD because everyone uses USD)

This creates transactional demand for dollars that has nothing to do with U.S. fundamentals.

Effect:

The USD stays strong because it is used, not because it is cheap.


๐Ÿ›️ 4. The U.S. can run larger deficits without currency collapse

Most countries running persistent fiscal and current‑account deficits see their currency weaken.

The U.S. is the exception.

Why?

Because the world wants U.S. assets.

U.S. deficits create more Treasuries

The world buys them

The USD strengthens instead of weakening

This is the “exorbitant privilege” described by Valรฉry Giscard d’Estaing.

Effect:

The USD stays overvalued because deficits don’t trigger the usual currency adjustment.


๐Ÿ“ˆ 5. Global financial markets are USD‑centric

Most global financial contracts — derivatives, loans, bonds — are denominated in USD.

This creates:

Hedging demand for USD

Collateral demand for U.S. Treasuries

Liquidity demand during crises

In every global shock (2008, 2020, 2022, 2024), the USD rises, even when the shock originates in the U.S.

Effect:

The USD carries a permanent safe‑haven premium.


๐Ÿงฉ 6. Network effects make the USD “sticky”

Once a currency becomes dominant:

Banks build infrastructure around it

Corporations price contracts in it

Central banks hold it

Commodity markets use it

Payment systems rely on it

Switching away is costly and slow.

This creates a self‑reinforcing loop:

More users → more liquidity → more stability → more users.

Effect:

The USD remains stronger than fundamentals because the system is built around it.


๐Ÿงฎ 7. How this shows up in valuation models

This is why:

PPP shows the USD 10–20% overvalued

FEER shows 5–15% overvalued

BEER shows 5–12% overvalued

REER shows 5–10% overvalued

The reserve‑currency premium is the “missing variable” that these models don’t fully capture.

                                                                                        


Together, these create a structural premium that keeps the USD above fair value.


If you want, we can go deeper into any of these:

How reserve‑currency status affects U.S. interest rates

Whether the USD’s dominance is eroding

How this affects Canada specifically (CAD–USD dynamics)

What would need to happen for the USD to lose reserve status

Just tell me which angle you want to explore next.


If this were to cease being the case ( and one is seeing first teps in this direction with the yuan), how disruptive would this be. The present US Administration has argued the USD should be lower...

You’re putting your finger on the real tension: the USD is too strong for many U.S. policymakers’ tastes, but that strength is precisely what the reserve‑currency system produces. If that system erodes, the adjustment is not just a gentle “USD a bit lower”—it changes how the whole machine works.

I’ll keep this tight but layered.

1. This doesn’t flip overnight

Most serious analyses agree on two things:

De‑dollarization is real but slow. The USD share of global FX reserves has fallen to a multi‑decade low, yet the dollar still dominates trade invoicing, FX turnover, and global finance.

The yuan is gaining ground at the margin, especially in bilateral trade and some commodity deals, but it’s nowhere near replacing the dollar system‑wide.

So the baseline is gradual erosion, not a sudden collapse. The disruption depends on how it happens.


2. If the USD premium fades gradually

If reserve‑currency demand slowly shrinks (more trade in yuan, euro, local currencies; more gold; more diversification):

Higher U.S. interest rates structurally:

Foreign central banks and sovereign funds buy fewer Treasuries.

The U.S. must offer higher yields to attract capital.

Debt service on U.S. public debt rises, tightening fiscal space.

Weaker, but more “fairly valued” USD:

The dollar loses some safe‑haven and reserve premium.

PPP/FEER/BEER misvaluation shrinks—USD moves closer to fundamentals.

This is the scenario current U.S. officials implicitly like when they say the dollar “should be lower”: a controlled, fundamentals‑driven depreciation, not a loss of dominance.

Less global “subsidy” for U.S. consumption:

The U.S. can’t run as large a current‑account deficit without currency pressure.

Imports become more expensive; exports more competitive.

Over time, this rebalances production but hits U.S. consumers’ real purchasing power.

More fragmented global system:

More regional currency blocs (USD, EUR, CNY, maybe INR/BRICS).

Cross‑border finance becomes more complex, with higher transaction and hedging costs.

Disruption level:

Manageable but significant—higher U.S. rates, weaker USD, more friction in global finance, but no systemic break.


3. If there were a rapid loss of confidence

This is the scenario people worry about when they talk about “the dollar losing reserve status”:

Sudden drop in foreign demand for Treasuries:

Yields spike; bond prices fall.

U.S. borrowing costs jump across the curve (mortgages, corporate credit, government).

Sharp USD depreciation:

Import prices surge (energy, electronics, machinery).

Inflation jumps; the Fed is forced into a brutal trade‑off between inflation control and financial stability.

Global financial stress:

A huge share of global debt and derivatives is USD‑denominated.

A fast USD move can blow up balance sheets abroad (EM corporates, banks) and at home.

You’d likely see crisis‑style interventions, swap lines, capital controls in some places.

Flight to alternatives (gold, CNY, EUR, commodities):

Central banks accelerate gold buying and diversification.

But because no single currency can instantly replace the USD, you get fragmentation and volatility, not a clean handoff.

Disruption level:

High—this is a global shock, not just a U.S. story.


4. Why some in Washington want a lower dollar anyway

When the administration says the USD “should be lower,” they’re usually aiming at:

Trade competitiveness: A somewhat weaker dollar helps U.S. manufacturing and exports.

Reducing external imbalances: A lower USD can narrow the current‑account deficit.

Easing global strain: An overstrong USD tightens financial conditions worldwide; a milder dollar can reduce stress in emerging markets.

But that’s very different from abandoning reserve‑currency status. The ideal from their perspective is:

In other words: less overvalued, not dethroned.


5. The yuan’s role in this

The yuan is:

Gaining share in bilateral trade and some commodity contracts.

Being pushed via BRICS initiatives, swap lines, and China’s digital yuan experiments.

But:

Capital controls, legal opacity, and political risk limit its appeal as a true reserve anchor.

Most central banks treat it as a diversifier, not a replacement.

So the more realistic path is multipolarity—USD still dominant but with a smaller share, yuan and others more relevant—rather than a clean USD→CNY switch.

6. Direct answer to your question

If reserve‑currency support fades slowly:

Disruptive but evolutionary—higher U.S. rates, weaker USD, less “free lunch” for U.S. consumers, more fragmented global finance.

If it breaks abruptly:

Systemically disruptive—bond market shock, inflation spike, global financial stress, and a messy scramble for alternatives.

The administration’s desire for a lower dollar is basically a wish for the first scenario without triggering the second—to let some air out of the overvaluation without puncturing the reserve‑currency balloon.

If you want, we can zoom in next on one of two angles:

(1) what this would mean specifically for Canada/CAD, or

(2) how you’d see the early warning signs in bond markets and reserve data.


Could the Euro become an alternative, alongside the yuan?

Absolutely — the euro can serve as an alternative reserve currency alongside the yuan, but the nature of its role is very different. In fact, if the global system becomes more multipolar, the euro is the most natural secondary anchor after the USD, while the yuan is a more conditional, politically constrained option.

Let’s unpack this in a way that makes the dynamics clear.


๐ŸŒ The euro already is the world’s #2 reserve currency

It consistently holds 20% of global FX reserves, compared to the USD’s ~58–60%.

The yuan is still around 3–4%.

So the euro isn’t a hypothetical alternative — it’s the only existing large‑scale alternative today.


๐Ÿงฉ Why the euro is a natural USD alternative

1. Deep, open, rule‑of‑law financial markets

The eurozone has large, liquid bond markets (especially Germany, France, Italy).

Capital is freely mobile.

Legal and regulatory systems are transparent and predictable.

This is essential for a reserve currency.

The yuan cannot match this because of capital controls and political risk.

2. Political neutrality

The euro is not tied to a single national government’s foreign policy.

For many countries, this makes it a “safe” diversifier away from the USD without jumping into China’s orbit.

3. Trade weight

The eurozone is one of the world’s largest trading blocs.

Many countries already invoice trade in euros, especially in Europe, Africa, and parts of the Middle East.

4. ECB credibility

The European Central Bank is seen as conservative, technocratic, and independent.

That’s a major asset for reserve‑currency trust.


๐Ÿงญ But the euro has structural limits

1. Fragmented bond market

Unlike the U.S., Europe doesn’t have a single unified “safe asset.”

Instead of one Treasury market, it has:

German Bunds

French OATs

Italian BTPs

etc.

This fragmentation limits the euro’s ability to scale as a global reserve anchor.

2. No fiscal union

Reserve currencies benefit from a unified fiscal authority.

The eurozone still lacks this, though the pandemic‑era joint debt issuance was a step toward integration.

3. Energy dependence and geopolitical exposure

Europe’s vulnerability to energy shocks and its proximity to conflict zones make some reserve managers cautious.

๐Ÿ‰ How the euro compares to the yuan

                                                                                   


Bottom line:

The euro is a trusted alternative; the yuan is a strategic alternative.

Countries diversify into euros for stability.

They diversify into yuan for geopolitical alignment or to bypass the U.S. system.


๐Ÿ”ฎ In a multipolar future, the likely configuration is:

USD — still dominant, but with a smaller share

EUR — the main “Western” alternative

CNY — the main “non‑Western” alternative

Gold — a rising neutral reserve asset

Regional currencies — more use in local trade (INR, BRL, AED)

This is the direction the world is already drifting toward.


๐Ÿง  So, could the euro become an alternative alongside the yuan?

Yes — and it already is.

In a world where USD dominance slowly erodes, the euro is the most credible, scalable, and politically neutral alternative.

The yuan will grow, but it cannot replace the euro’s role because it lacks openness, legal predictability, and financial depth.

If you want, we can go deeper into:

How reserve managers decide between EUR and CNY

What would need to change for the euro to challenge the USD more directly

How this affects CAD and Canada’s trade structure

Whether a multipolar reserve system is more stable or more fragile


What about the American Stock Market. it only deals in USDs!?

The U.S. stock market does operate entirely in USD — but that doesn’t mean it would be crippled by a world where the dollar is less dominant. What changes is why global investors hold USD, not whether they can buy U.S. equities. The mechanisms are more subtle and more interesting than people usually assume.
Let’s unpack this in a clean, structured way.

๐Ÿงญ 1. The U.S. stock market is priced in USD — but investors don’t need USD permanently
Foreign investors convert their local currency into USD only at the moment of purchase.
They don’t need to hold USD reserves to own U.S. stocks.
So even in a multipolar world:
A Canadian investor converts CAD → USD → buys Apple
A German investor converts EUR → USD → buys Microsoft
A Japanese pension fund converts JPY → USD → buys S&P 500 ETFs
This mechanism doesn’t depend on the USD being the world’s reserve currency.
It depends on liquidity and market depth, which the U.S. still dominates.

๐Ÿ“ˆ 2. The U.S. stock market is the deepest, most liquid equity market on Earth
This is the real anchor — not the currency.
~60% of global equity market capitalization is American
U.S. exchanges have unmatched liquidity, transparency, and legal protections
The biggest global companies (Apple, Nvidia, Amazon) are U.S.-listed
The S&P 500 is the world’s benchmark for institutional portfolios
Even if the USD weakens or loses some reserve share, the U.S. equity market remains the global center of gravity.
Investors will still buy U.S. stocks because they want exposure to U.S. companies, not because they love USD.

๐Ÿงฉ 3. What would change if the USD loses some reserve‑currency premium?
✔️ A weaker USD makes U.S. stocks more attractive to foreigners
If the dollar depreciates:
U.S. equities become cheaper in foreign‑currency terms
Foreign capital flows increase
Corporate earnings from exports rise
Multinationals benefit from currency translation effects
Historically, USD weakness is bullish for U.S. equities.
✔️ U.S. interest rates would drift higher
If fewer foreign central banks buy Treasuries:
Treasury yields rise
Discount rates rise
Equity valuations may compress somewhat
But this is a slow structural effect, not a sudden shock.
✔️ More FX volatility for foreign investors
Foreign investors would hedge more actively.
This adds cost but doesn’t stop investment.

๐Ÿงจ 4. What if the USD lost reserve status rapidly?
This is the disruptive scenario.
USD falls sharply
Treasury yields spike
Risk premiums rise
U.S. equities could see a temporary selloff
Global markets would experience turbulence
But even then, the U.S. stock market remains fully functional.
It doesn’t “break” — it simply reprices.
And ironically, after the dust settles, a weaker USD often boosts U.S. corporate earnings.

๐Ÿง  5. The key insight: reserve‑currency status matters more for bonds than stocks
The USD’s special role mainly affects:
Treasury demand
U.S. government borrowing costs
Global liquidity
Safe‑haven flows
Equities are different.
They are bought for:
Growth
Innovation
Corporate earnings
Market depth
Legal protections
These factors don’t disappear if the USD becomes one currency among several.

๐Ÿงญ 6. So what happens to the U.S. stock market in a multipolar currency world?
Likely outcomes:
Still the world’s #1 equity market
Still priced in USD
Still the deepest and most liquid
Still the home of the largest global companies
Possibly more attractive to foreign investors if the USD weakens
Slightly higher discount rates due to higher Treasury yields
More FX hedging activity globally
Unlikely outcomes:
U.S. stocks priced in multiple currencies
A mass exodus from U.S. equities
A collapse in market function
The U.S. stock market’s dominance is tied to economic scale, innovation, and legal infrastructure, not the reserve‑currency system.

If you want, we can go deeper into one of these angles:
How a weaker USD affects S&P 500 earnings
What this means for Canada and CAD‑denominated investors
Whether Europe or China could ever rival U.S. equity market depth
How global capital flows shift in a multipolar currency world


Here's one to ponder. Wouldn't the Euro becoming a strong contender as reserve currency make that currency liable to the same 'overvaluation effect'. And meanwhile, Brick countries move a lot of stuff around at friendly prices!!!

Absolutely — and you’ve zeroed in on a structural paradox: reserve-currency status is both a privilege and a trap. The euro, if it ascends as a true global anchor, would inherit the same valuation distortions that plague the USD. Meanwhile, BRICS countries are building a parallel system that deliberately avoids those traps — favoring trade autonomy over currency dominance.

Let’s map this out clearly:

๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ If the euro becomes a dominant reserve currency…
It would attract:
Persistent global demand from central banks, sovereign funds, and trade invoicing
Safe-haven flows during crises
Commodity pricing in euros (especially energy, metals)
Portfolio diversification into eurozone bonds and equities
This demand would push the euro above its fair value, just like the USD:
PPP models would show euro overvaluation
FEER models would show eurozone current account compression
BEER models would reflect capital inflows and interest rate distortions
Result:
The euro becomes “too strong” for its exporters, just as the USD has been for decades.
Germany, France, and Italy would feel the pinch — especially in manufacturing and industrial goods.

๐Ÿงฉ The paradox:

That’s the “exorbitant privilege” — and its cost.

๐ŸŒ Meanwhile, BRICS countries are flipping the script
They’re building a trade-first, currency-second system:
Bilateral trade in local currencies (INR–RUB, CNY–BRL, ZAR–AED)
Commodity deals priced in yuan, rupees, or even gold
Settlement systems that bypass SWIFT and USD clearing
Discounted pricing and flexible terms to attract partners

This creates a low-friction, low-premium trade zone:
Goods move at “friendly prices” — not inflated by reserve-currency distortions
FX risk is absorbed or ignored for strategic reasons
Trade is driven by access, alignment, and autonomy — not currency dominance
Result:
BRICS trade becomes more agile, less exposed to valuation traps, and more attractive to emerging markets.

๐Ÿง  So yes — if the euro rises, it risks the same overvaluation that weakens competitiveness.
And BRICS are deliberately avoiding that fate by not trying to dominate global currency flows, but instead reshaping trade mechanics.

This is why some analysts argue that currency dominance is a trap — and why multipolarity might be healthier than hegemony.

If you want, we can model:
How euro overvaluation would affect trade balances
What this means for CAD and Quebec exports
Whether gold or commodities could anchor a neutral settlement system
Or how reserve status affects interest rates and debt sustainability
You’re asking the right questions — let’s keep going.

Real_Assets

 Meta ai:

I have heard (on Facebook) that Silver is now a reserve metal for banks, thanks to an agreement at Davos. Is this correct?

Silver is indeed becoming a reserve metal for banks, but it's not exactly due to an agreement at Davos. Central banks, particularly Russia and India, are accumulating silver reserves as part of a broader strategy to diversify their portfolios and reduce dependence on traditional reserve assets like gold and US dollars.

This shift is driven by silver's unique dual nature as both an industrial commodity and a monetary metal, offering exceptional leverage and potential for outsized returns during periods of monetary instability. Russia's central bank has formally announced silver purchases, while India's Reserve Bank has made silver eligible as loan collateral, indicating a significant policy change. Would you like to know more about the implications of this trend or the current silver market situation?


I do know the price of silver has ballooned in January 2026...

Silver's price has indeed skyrocketed in January 2026, hitting an all-time high of $103.30 per ounce on January 23, 2026. As of January 25, 2026, the current price is around $106.18 per ounce 

This surge is driven by factors like geopolitical uncertainty, industrial demand, and safe-haven investments. Analysts predict silver could reach $100-$200 per ounce by 2026, with some even forecasting $375 by 2028. 

Would you like to know more about the factors driving silver's price or get the latest predictions from experts?


Considering it was at 30USD last year, that seems bullish to me...

Silver's price surge is definitely bullish, jumping from around $30 USD last year to $106.70 USD as of today. Analysts predict it could reach $200-$300 by the middle of 2027, driven by factors like industrial demand and safe-haven investments. 

Some key predictions include:

Short-term forecast: $107-$111 USD by January 31, 2026

Mid-term forecast: $202 USD by mid-2026 and $247 USD by year-end

Long-term forecast: $349 USD by 2027 and $615 USD by 2032

Would you like to know more about the factors driving silver's price or get the latest predictions from experts?


Tell me more about the actions of central banks. Is this what is driving the surge??

Central banks are indeed driving the surge in silver prices, and it's a significant shift. Russia's central bank has announced plans to acquire silver reserves for the first time, while Saudi Arabia's central bank has bought silver through ETFs. This move is part of a broader strategy to diversify their portfolios and reduce dependence on traditional reserve assets like gold and US dollars. 

Key Drivers:

Geopolitical Diversification: Central banks are seeking to reduce their reliance on Western financial systems and dollar-denominated assets.

Industrial Demand: Silver's unique dual nature as both an industrial commodity and a monetary metal makes it attractive.

Supply Constraints: Ongoing production deficits and declining above-ground inventories contribute to the price surge.

Notable Central Bank Actions:

Russia's central bank allocated $535 million for silver acquisition in its 2025-2027 federal budget.

Saudi Arabia's central bank bought approximately 932,000 shares of the iShares Silver Trust (SLV) worth $30.6 million.

This trend is expected to continue, with analysts predicting silver prices could reach $100-$200 per ounce by 2026. 

Would you like to know more about the implications of central bank silver accumulation or get the latest predictions from experts?


What are the implications. Is everyone getting rid of US debt?

Central banks are diversifying their reserves, and it's not just about getting rid of US debt. The move is more about reducing dependence on traditional reserve assets like the US dollar and exploring alternatives like gold and silver. Russia, for instance, has announced plans to acquire silver reserves for the first time, allocating $535 million over three years. 

This shift is driven by several factors:

Geopolitical Diversification: Central banks want to reduce their reliance on Western financial systems and dollar-denominated assets.

Monetary Policy Independence: By diversifying reserves, central banks can maintain control over their monetary policies.

Strategic Asset Accumulation: Central banks are accumulating assets like gold and silver during favorable pricing periods.

The implications are significant:

Reduced Demand for US Debt: As central banks diversify, demand for US debt might decrease, potentially impacting the dollar's value.

Increased Volatility: The shift could lead to increased volatility in currency and commodity markets.

Alternative Reserve Assets: Gold and silver might become more prominent as reserve assets, potentially driving up their prices.

Would you like to know more about the impact on the US dollar or the potential effects on gold and silver prices?


How odd is going back to real assets for central banks. Is the stability of the world economy in peril in any way!?

Central banks are indeed going back to real assets, and it's a significant shift. The move is driven by growing concerns over US fiscal policy, geopolitical tensions, and the desire to diversify reserves away from traditional assets like US Treasuries. This trend is particularly notable in gold, with central banks accumulating gold reserves at unprecedented rates. 

Key Drivers:

Geopolitical Diversification: Central banks want to reduce their reliance on Western financial systems and dollar-denominated assets.

Monetary Policy Independence: By diversifying reserves, central banks can maintain control over their monetary policies.

Strategic Asset Accumulation: Central banks are accumulating assets like gold and silver during favorable pricing periods.

The stability of the world economy isn't necessarily in peril, but this shift does signal a significant change in the global financial landscape. The dollar's dominance is being gradually eroded, and alternative reserve currencies like the euro and yuan are gaining traction.

Implications:

Reduced Demand for US Debt: As central banks diversify, demand for US debt might decrease, potentially impacting the dollar's value.

Increased Volatility: The shift could lead to increased volatility in currency and commodity markets.

Alternative Reserve Assets: Gold and silver might become more prominent as reserve assets, potentially driving up their prices.

Would you like to know more about the impact on the US dollar or the potential effects on gold and silver prices?

                                                                       *     *     *

Copilot :

                                                                                     


The price of gold has also been spiking, at the same time...

You’re absolutely right to connect the two. When gold and silver spike together, it usually signals that something deeper is happening in the global system — and your open tab on GoldPrice.org  shows just how dramatic the move has been. Gold sitting around $5,047/oz with +82% year‑over‑year gains is extraordinary, not a routine bull market. 

Let’s unpack why both metals are exploding simultaneously, because that’s the real story.

๐ŸŒ Why Gold Is Spiking Alongside Silver

๐Ÿงฒ 1. Safe‑Haven Demand Is in Overdrive

Gold is the world’s default “fear asset.”

When:

geopolitical tensions rise

currencies wobble

debt markets look fragile

investors distrust central banks

gold becomes the global insurance policy.

The 2025–2026 environment checks all those boxes.


⚡ 2. The Dollar Has Been Weakening

A weaker USD mechanically lifts gold and silver.

But more importantly, it signals that global investors are hedging against:

fiscal instability

political uncertainty

long‑term inflation risk

Gold responds first. Silver follows with leverage.


๐Ÿ”‹ 3. Industrial Metals Are Tight — and Silver Sits at the Crossroads

Silver is both:

a precious metal (like gold)

an industrial metal (unlike gold)

So when industrial demand surges and safe‑haven demand surges, silver goes vertical.

Gold’s spike confirms that the safe‑haven side of the equation is real.


๐Ÿฆ 4. Central Banks Have Been Buying Gold Aggressively

This is one of the most important but under‑discussed drivers.

Central banks — especially in Asia and the Middle East — have been:

diversifying away from USD reserves

increasing gold holdings

reducing exposure to U.S. Treasurys

When central banks buy, they buy tonnes, not ounces.

That pushes the entire market upward.


๐Ÿ”ฅ 5. The Gold/Silver Ratio Has Been Compressing

Historically:

High ratio → silver undervalued

Low ratio → silver catching up to gold

With gold at $5,000+ and silver breaking $100, the ratio is tightening fast.

This is typical in late‑stage precious‑metal bull runs.


๐Ÿงญ What Your GoldPrice.org Tab Tells Us

Your active tab shows:

Gold up +1.41% today

Up +15% in 30 days

Up +82% in 1 year

Up +170% over 5 years  

Those are not normal numbers.

They’re the signature of a macro regime shift.


๐ŸŽฏ The Big Picture

Gold’s spike is the macro signal.

Silver’s spike is the amplified response.

When both move together this violently, it usually means:

investors are hedging systemic risk

industrial demand is colliding with supply limits

currencies are under pressure

central banks are repositioning

geopolitical uncertainty is high


This is not a speculative bubble in isolation.

It’s a repricing of risk across the global system.


If you want, I can map out:

how gold might behave 2026–2030

whether gold’s spike is more sustainable than silver’s

how the gold/silver ratio might evolve

what this means for Canadian consumers and bullion availability in Quebec

Just tell me where you want to go next.


Have any other metals been behaving like this?

Yes — several other metals have been surging sharply, though none as explosively as silver. Gold, platinum, palladium, copper, and even aluminum have all been in strong uptrends heading into 2026, driven by the same mix of geopolitical tension, electrification demand, and supply constraints.

Below is a clear breakdown of which metals are moving, how fast, and why.

๐Ÿ”ฅ Metals Showing Silver‑Like Behavior (2025–2026)

๐ŸŸก Gold — The Most Dramatic After Silver

Gold has been breaking record after record, exceeding $4,800/oz in early 2026 as safe‑haven demand surged.

Drivers include tariff threats, geopolitical instability, and central‑bank buying.

Gold is the closest analogue to silver’s spike, but its move is more macro‑driven than industrial.


⚪ Platinum — Triple‑Digit Percentage Gains

Platinum rose ~126% in 2025, a massive move for a metal that usually trades quietly.

Driven by:

automotive catalyst demand

supply issues in South Africa

investor rotation into undervalued precious metals


⚫ Palladium — Also Surging

Palladium gained ~80% in 2025, lifted by:

auto‑sector recovery

constrained Russian supply

substitution dynamics with platinum


๐Ÿ”ง Base Metals With Strong Uptrends (But Not Parabolic)

๐ŸŸ  Copper — Record‑High Prices

Copper entered 2026 with record‑high pricing due to supply‑demand imbalances.

Electrification, EVs, and grid expansion are the main drivers.

Copper is rising fast, but not in a silver‑style vertical spike.

⚙️ Aluminum — Tight Supply, Rising Prices

Aluminum prices rose significantly in 2025 and into 2026 due to:

energy‑cost pressures

supply tightness

strong demand from aerospace and packaging


๐Ÿ”ฉ Nickel, Tin, Zinc — Broad Uptrend

The World Bank expects firm pricing for aluminum, nickel, tin, and copper through 2026–2027 due to tightening supply and modest demand growth.

These metals are rising, but not spiking.

                                                                                    


he only metals behaving as dramatically as silver are gold, platinum, and (to a lesser extent) palladium.  

Base metals are rising strongly but not exploding.


If you want, I can map out:

which metals are most likely to keep rising through 2030

how these moves affect manufacturing, electronics, and consumer prices in Quebec

whether this resembles past commodity supercycles.

Sunday, January 25, 2026

Bespoke

 Copilot:

King Charles has just taken delivery of a new Chinese electric car: are there any estimates of what the value of this vehicle might be... 

Pictured: King’s Chinese-backed Lotus as Starmer heads to Beijing

                                                                              


The vehicle in question is a Lotus Eletre, and based on current market data for this model, the estimated value ranges from roughly £90,000 to over £120,000, with bespoke royal specifications likely pushing the price even higher. The article you’re reading confirms it is a custom-built, Royal Claret–liveried version of the Eletre, which would place it toward the top end of that spectrum. 


๐Ÿ’ฐ Estimated Value of King Charles’s Lotus Eletre

๐Ÿ”Ž Base Market Pricing (UK)

The Lotus Eletre lineup typically includes:

                                                                               


The Telegraph article notes that the King’s car is described as a “hyper‑SUV with racecar DNA” and references the 900 hp configuration, which aligns with the Eletre R / 900 model. 

๐ŸŽจ Royal Customization Premium

King Charles’s vehicle is:

Bespoke

Painted in Royal Claret, the traditional royal/state-car livery

Built at a specialist facility in Norfolk

Personally paid for by the King

Custom paint, interior tailoring, and royal‑grade finishing can easily add £10,000–£30,000+ to the base price.


๐Ÿ“Œ Realistic Estimate for This Car

Taking into account:

Top‑spec Eletre R pricing (~£120k+)

Bespoke royal livery and detailing

Possible additional security or comfort modifications (not disclosed but typical for royal vehicles)


๐Ÿ‘‰ Estimated value: £120,000–£150,000+

A figure toward the upper end is more plausible given the bespoke nature.


๐Ÿงญ Contextual Notes

The Eletre is assembled in the UK but uses components from China, reflecting Lotus’s integration with Geely. 

The King’s choice aligns with his long-standing environmental preferences and his history of adopting low‑emission vehicles.

If you want, I can also compare the Eletre’s value to other royal vehicles, or break down what specific customizations might cost.

                                                                         *     *     *

                                                                                  

Asked Copilot if the two cars were really of the same color. Below:

The color of the new Lotus Eletre in the first image and the Bentley State Limousine in the second image are similar but not identical. Both vehicles are finished in Royal Claret, the traditional deep maroon shade used for royal ceremonial cars. However, there are subtle differences:

                                                                                        


๐Ÿง  Interpretation

The Lotus Eletre’s paint likely uses a modern formulation of Royal Claret, optimized for electric vehicle styling and high-gloss finishes.

The Bentley’s version is more traditional, possibly with multi-layered lacquer and deeper pigment saturation.

Lighting and camera angle also affect perception: the Eletre’s curves and metallic surfaces reflect more ambient light, making it appear slightly brighter.

So while both are officially Royal Claret, the Lotus’s modern styling and finish give it a subtly different visual impact than the Bentley’s stately, ceremonial tone.

Would you like a breakdown of how Royal Claret is formulated or how it’s adapted across different royal vehicles?                                         

Environmental_Horizons

 

Change is a scary thing, and researchers in the climate field are not immune

to the syndrome. La Presse, today, brings together different Environmental 

topics including warming trends for Quebec to 2100 (6.6C in winter), and the recent 

UN report on the declining availability of usable water due to a lesser performance in 

renewal cycles.


Quebec climate 2100:

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/environnement/2026-01-20/d-ici-2100/au-quebec-la-temperature-moyenne-pourrait-augmenter-de-6-6-en-hiver.php


UN on water shortfall:

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/environnement/2026-01-20/rapport-de-l-onu/l-eau-est-en-etat-de-faillite-mondiale.php


Oh, and NASA computers confirm life will need to be moved elsewhere at the 1 billion year

threshold. 

https://blog.sciandnature.com/2025/11/nasa-supercomputers-calculated-when.html

Read all about in your pjays with a cuppa...


Saturday, January 24, 2026

W_Hemisphere

 Copilot:

Tell me what the Western Hemisphere is. Can I see it on a map. With respect to the Pentagon Defense Policy for 2026, does it just mean the Americas, (and no chunks of Africa)!!

๐ŸŒŽ What the “Western Hemisphere” Actually Means

Geographically, the Western Hemisphere is the half of the Earth west of the Prime Meridian (0° longitude) and east of 180° longitude.

That definition is purely mathematical, and it produces a map that includes:

All of North and South America

Most of the Atlantic Ocean

Greenland

Parts of Western Europe (e.g., Portugal, Ireland, parts of the UK)

Parts of West Africa (e.g., Senegal, Mali, Ghana)

A slice of Antarctica

So yes — strictly speaking, chunks of Africa and Europe are in the Western Hemisphere.


But that’s the geographic definition.

The political or strategic definition is often narrower.


๐Ÿงญ How the Pentagon Uses the Term in the 2026 Defense Strategy

Looking at the document you have open, the strategy emphasizes:

Defending the U.S. homeland and the Western Hemisphere as the top priority

Countering narco‑terrorist organizations

Supporting regional partners

Securing strategic terrain such as Greenland, the Panama Canal, and key maritime routes

Reaffirming the Monroe Doctrine 


The reference to the Monroe Doctrine is the giveaway.

In U.S. defense and foreign‑policy language, “Western Hemisphere” almost always means:

๐Ÿ‘‰ The Americas (North, Central, South, and the Caribbean)

—not the strict geographic hemisphere.

This is a political‑strategic definition, not a cartographic one.


So in the context of the 2026 Pentagon strategy:

✔ It means the Americas

✘ It does not mean West Africa or Western Europe

✔ It includes Greenland (explicitly mentioned)

✔ It includes maritime approaches like the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific

This aligns with the long‑standing U.S. framing of the hemisphere as its regional sphere of responsibility.


๐Ÿ—บ️ “Can I See It on a Map?”

I can absolutely help you visualize it — but I need one quick clarification from you before I proceed:

Would you like:

A map of the geographic Western Hemisphere (the literal half‑globe),

or

A map of the strategic/political Western Hemisphere as used by the Pentagon (the Americas only)?

Each looks quite different, so your choice determines the right visual.

If you tell me which one you want, I’ll generate a clean, clear map for you.


That was the question... I guess the inclusion of Greenland on the Pentagon map is the one big difference...

You’re reading the situation exactly the way the Pentagon intends it to be read.

And yes — Greenland is the big, deliberate outlier.


Let’s unpack it cleanly.

๐ŸŒŽ Why the Pentagon’s “Western Hemisphere” ≠ the Geographic Western Hemisphere

The geographic Western Hemisphere includes slices of Europe and Africa.

But the Pentagon is not using that definition at all.

In the 2026 defense strategy on your open tab , the term is used in a strategic‑political sense, not a cartographic one. That means:


✔ It refers to the Americas

✔ It includes the Caribbean, Central America, South America

✔ It includes the Arctic approaches

✔ It includes Greenland

✘ It does not include West Africa or Western Europe

This is the same logic the U.S. has used since the Monroe Doctrine:

“Western Hemisphere” = the U.S. sphere of responsibility in the Americas.


๐ŸงŠ Why Greenland Is Included

Greenland is the one major addition because:

It is strategically essential for Arctic defense

It hosts Thule Air Base, a key U.S. missile‑warning and space‑tracking site

It sits on the North Atlantic–Arctic chokepoint

It is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but geographically in North America

The Pentagon explicitly names it as “strategic terrain” in the 2026 strategy


So the Pentagon’s map is basically:

“The Americas + Greenland + maritime approaches we must defend.”

No Africa. No Europe. No ambiguity.


๐Ÿงญ So your conclusion is right

The only meaningful difference between:

“The Americas”  

and

“The Western Hemisphere” (as the Pentagon uses it)

is Greenland.

Everything else is political shorthand.

If you want, I can sketch out the two versions side‑by‑side — the geographic hemisphere vs. the Pentagon’s strategic hemisphere — so you can see how different they really are.


Just curious: Is Hawai part of the geographic Western Hemisphere?

Short answer: mostly no — but with a tiny twist.

๐ŸŒ Geographic Western Hemisphere vs. Hawaii

The geographic Western Hemisphere is defined strictly by longitude:

West of 0° (Prime Meridian)

East of 180°

Hawaii sits roughly between 154°W and 161°W, which is well within that range.

๐Ÿ‘‰ So yes: Hawaii is in the geographic Western Hemisphere.

But here’s the twist:

The 180° meridian runs through the Pacific, and a few tiny uninhabited islands west of Hawaii (like parts of Kiribati) technically fall into the Eastern Hemisphere even though they’re “farther west” on a map.

Hawaii, however, is entirely east of 180°, so it’s fully inside the Western Hemisphere.


๐ŸŒ Why people get confused

Most world maps center the Pacific in a way that makes Hawaii look like it’s “far out west,” almost on the edge of the world. But longitude doesn’t care about map layout — it’s just math.

๐Ÿงญ Pentagon usage (for context)

Even though Hawaii is geographically in the Western Hemisphere, the Pentagon does not include Hawaii when it says “Western Hemisphere” in the 2026 strategy.

In U.S. defense language, “Western Hemisphere” = the Americas + Greenland, not the Pacific.


So:

Geographically: Hawaii = Western Hemisphere

Strategically: Hawaii = Indo‑Pacific region, not “Western Hemisphere”

If you want, I can map out the hemisphere boundaries so you can see exactly where Hawaii sits relative to the 180° line.


Where is Diego Garcia?

Diego Garcia sits in one of the most remote corners of the planet — and its location is a big part of why it matters so much strategically.

๐Ÿ“ Where Diego Garcia Is Located

Diego Garcia is an atoll in the central Indian Ocean, part of the Chagos Archipelago.

Latitude: about 7° South

Longitude: about 72° East

Region: Indian Ocean, roughly between Africa and Indonesia

Political status: Administered by the United Kingdom as part of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT), but used almost entirely by the United States military under a long‑term agreement.


๐ŸŒ What It’s Near (roughly)

South of India and Sri Lanka

Southwest of Indonesia

Far east of the Seychelles

Far west of Australia

It’s extremely isolated — thousands of kilometers from any major population center.


๐Ÿ›ก️ Why It Matters Strategically

Diego Garcia is one of the most important U.S. military bases outside the continental United States because it provides:

A deep‑water port

A long‑runway airbase capable of hosting bombers

A secure, remote location for logistics and surveillance

A central position for operations in the Middle East, East Africa, and South Asia

It’s effectively the U.S. military’s “unsinkable aircraft carrier” in the Indian Ocean.


If you want, I can place it relative to the hemispheres too — it’s firmly in the Eastern Hemisphere, far from anything the Pentagon would call the “Western Hemisphere.”

The_Dollar

 I'm not sure this is ture, but it all seems compelling, especially  now that

we are seeing news items about how European countries should go easy about

didarming the American dollar...

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1570252894199715

The US dollar just fell and the reason is clear

Ukraine_BiggerPicture

Copilot:

 Tell me about the Donbas region of Ukraine. I know it was the area where coal mining occured...

The Donbas is the industrial heartland of eastern Ukraine, historically defined by vast coal reserves, heavy industry, and dense mining towns. Recent reporting shows that many of its last major Ukrainian‑controlled coal mines have shut down due to advancing Russian forces, dramatically reshaping the region’s economic and strategic landscape. 

๐ŸŒ What “Donbas” Actually Refers To

The term Donbas comes from Donets Basin, referring to the coal‑rich basin around the Donets River.

It traditionally includes Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.

For more than a century, it has been one of the most industrialized regions of the former Russian Empire, the USSR, and independent Ukraine.

⚒️ Coal Mining and Heavy Industry

Donbas became Ukraine’s coal and steel powerhouse, with dozens of deep mines and metallurgical plants.

Even during the war, the region’s last major coking‑coal mine—Pokrovske—remained crucial for Ukraine’s steel sector until it was forced to shut down in early 2025 as Russian troops approached. 

The closure of mines like Pokrovske and Pischane reflects how frontline fighting has directly crippled the region’s industrial base. 


๐Ÿชจ Why Donbas Matters Strategically

The region contains Ukraine’s largest coal reserves, making it economically valuable. 

Control of Donbas provides:

Access to coal and other minerals

Industrial infrastructure (steel, chemicals, machinery)

Rail and logistics hubs such as Pokrovsk, which has been heavily contested. 

Analysts note that Russia views Donbas as a key prize because of these resources and its symbolic role in the Soviet industrial legacy. 


⚔️ Donbas in the Current War

Since 2014, parts of Donetsk and Luhansk have been occupied by Russian‑backed forces.

After the full‑scale invasion in 2022, the region became the central battleground.

By 2025–2026, fighting around cities like Pokrovsk, Kostyantynivka, and Druzhkivka intensified, with mines and industrial sites frequently targeted or abandoned. 


๐Ÿงญ Social and Cultural Notes

Donbas has a mixed population with strong industrial working‑class traditions.

Historically, it had a higher proportion of Russian speakers and Soviet‑era identity markers compared to western Ukraine.

Many mining towns were built around single industries, making them especially vulnerable to economic collapse during war.


๐Ÿงฉ In Short

The Donbas is not just a battlefield—it’s a region whose identity is tied to coal, steel, and heavy industry. The war has devastated its mines, displaced its workers, and turned its industrial towns into strategic targets. Understanding Donbas means understanding both its economic weight and its symbolic importance to Ukraine and Russia.


If you want, I can also map out:

how Donbas coal geology formed,

the history of mining towns,

or the political dynamics that made the region so contested.


Other than coal mining, what other industries are remarkable in this region...

The Donbas has always been far more than a coal basin. It developed into one of the most heavily industrialized regions of Eastern Europe, with major steel, metallurgy, chemical, and machinery sectors that shaped its identity for over a century.

๐Ÿญ Major Industries of the Donbas (Beyond Coal)

๐Ÿ”ฉ Metallurgy & Steel Production

Donbas became a steelmaking powerhouse, with large metallurgical plants built around the availability of local coal and iron-processing infrastructure.

Heavy steelworks in cities like Donetsk, Yenakiieve, and Alchevsk historically supplied much of Ukraine’s metal output.

This sector was central to the region’s industrialization in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, heavily financed by Western European capital. 

๐Ÿงช Chemical Industry

The region developed a substantial chemical and coke‑chemical sector, tied to coal processing.

Factories produced fertilizers, industrial chemicals, and coke for steelmaking.

These plants formed part of the broader industrial ecosystem that made Donbas a strategic economic hub. 

๐Ÿ—️ Machinery & Heavy Equipment Manufacturing

Donbas became known for machine‑building, including:

Mining equipment

Heavy industrial machinery

Rail and transport equipment

This sector grew alongside mining and metallurgy, supplying both local industries and export markets. 

๐Ÿงฑ Construction Materials

The region produced cement, bricks, refractory materials, and other building supplies, supported by local mineral resources and industrial demand.

๐Ÿš‚ Transport & Logistics Infrastructure

Because of its dense industrial base, Donbas developed:

Major rail hubs

Freight corridors

Industrial towns built around factories and mines

This made it a key logistical region for both Ukraine and the former USSR. 


๐Ÿงญ Why These Industries Clustered in Donbas

Abundant coal provided cheap energy.

Proximity to the Donets fold belt created favorable geology for minerals.

Heavy investment from the Russian Empire and later the USSR built an integrated industrial network.

Western European investors in the 19th–20th centuries financed much of the early industrial boom. 


๐Ÿงจ Impact of War on These Industries

Many plants have been damaged, shut down, or occupied since 2014.

The collapse of coal mining has disrupted steel and chemical production, threatening the region’s entire industrial ecosystem. 

If you want, I can also break down:

which specific cities specialized in which industries,

how Donbas industrialization compared to other Soviet regions, or

how the war has reshaped each sector’s future.


Does Ukraine possess other industrial hubs, further north?

Absolutely — Ukraine’s industrial geography is far more diverse than just the Donbas. Several major industrial hubs lie further north or northwest, each with its own specialization and historical roots. The country’s industrial map is almost a patchwork of Soviet‑era heavy industry, modern tech clusters, and regional manufacturing centers.

๐Ÿญ Northern & Central Ukrainian Industrial Hubs

๐ŸŒ† Kharkiv — Machinery, Aerospace, Electronics
Kharkiv is the second‑largest city in Ukraine and historically one of the USSR’s most important industrial centers.

Key sectors include:
Aerospace & aviation (e.g., turbojet engines, aircraft components)
Tank and armored vehicle production
Electronics and precision instruments
Machine‑building (tractors, turbines, industrial equipment)

Kharkiv is often considered the intellectual and engineering capital of Ukraine, with major universities feeding its industries.

๐Ÿ™️ Dnipro (Dnipro City) — Rocketry, Metallurgy, Machine‑Building
While not “north” of Donbas, it is northwest and absolutely central to Ukraine’s industrial identity.

Dnipro is famous for:
Rocket and missile production (Yuzhmash, a major Soviet and Ukrainian aerospace manufacturer)
Steel and metallurgy
Pipe manufacturing
Heavy machinery

It’s one of the few cities in the world with a deep legacy in space and missile engineering.

๐Ÿ™️ Zaporizhzhia — Hydropower, Aluminum, Motors
Again slightly southwest of Donbas, but still part of the broader industrial belt.

Known for:
Zaporizhstal (one of Ukraine’s largest steel plants)
Motor Sich (aircraft engines)
Aluminum production
Hydropower (DniproHES dam)

๐Ÿ™️ Kyiv — High‑Tech, Electronics, Light Industry
Kyiv is not a heavy‑industry city like Donetsk or Dnipro, but it is a major center for:

Electronics
IT and software
Aerospace design bureaus
Pharmaceuticals
Food processing

It’s increasingly the tech and innovation hub of Ukraine.

๐Ÿ™️ Sumy — Chemical & Machinery Industries

Located north of Kharkiv, Sumy is known for:
Chemical fertilizers
Pump and compressor manufacturing
Machinery for oil and gas industries

It’s one of the more northern industrial cities with a strong engineering base.

๐Ÿ™️ Chernihiv — Textiles, Machinery, Food Processing

Further north, near the Belarus border:
Textile and garment factories
Light machinery
Food processing
Brewing

Chernihiv is more diversified and less heavy‑industrial than Donbas or Kharkiv.

๐Ÿ™️ Poltava — Oil & Gas, Machinery

Poltava sits on one of Ukraine’s key oil and natural gas regions.

Industries include:
Petrochemicals
Oil and gas extraction
Machinery for drilling and energy
                                                                                               



๐Ÿงฉ In short
Yes — Ukraine has multiple industrial hubs north of Donbas, each with distinct specializations. Donbas was the coal‑steel heart, but Kharkiv, Sumy, Chernihiv, Kyiv, and Poltava form a northern arc of engineering, chemicals, machinery, and high‑tech industries.

If you want, I can map these hubs geographically, compare their economic output, or explain how the war has affected each region’s industrial capacity.


Could you show me these cities on an outline map of Ukraine, or find one on the Web?

Here’s a clean outline map of Ukraine with major cities already marked, including Kyiv, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Zaporizhzhia, Chernihiv, Sumy, and Poltava — the exact northern and central industrial hubs we discussed.
                                                                                 

source: Gemini ai


๐Ÿ—บ️ How to Read the Map
Kyiv — central‑north
Chernihiv — directly north of Kyiv, near Belarus
Sumy — northeast, near the Russian border
Kharkiv — further east, major industrial center
Poltava — between Kyiv and Kharkiv
Dnipro — southeast of Poltava, on the Dnipro River
Zaporizhzhia — further south along the river

If you’d like, I can also:
mark the cities directly on a simplified outline map,
add the Donbas boundary for comparison,
or show a second map highlighting industrial regions specifically.


Has Russia shown any interest in these other industrial areas?

Russia’s interest in Ukraine’s industrial regions has always extended well beyond the Donbas, though the intensity and form of that interest varies by region. What you see is a pattern: where industry intersects with military value, logistics, or energy infrastructure, Russia has shown sustained strategic focus.
Below is a clear breakdown of how each northern and central industrial hub fits into that picture.

๐Ÿงญ Big Picture
Russia’s military and political objectives have consistently included:
Capturing or disabling Ukraine’s industrial capacity
Disrupting logistics and energy networks
Neutralizing aerospace, defense, and machine‑building centers
Undermining Ukraine’s ability to produce weapons, repair equipment, or sustain heavy industry
So yes — several of the northern and central hubs you mentioned have been targeted, though not always for territorial control. Sometimes the goal is destruction, not occupation.

๐Ÿญ Region‑by‑Region Overview
๐ŸŒ† Kharkiv — High Interest
Kharkiv is one of the most strategically important industrial cities in Ukraine.
Russia has shown very strong interest, demonstrated by:
Repeated attempts to advance toward the city (2022 and again in 2024–2025)

Heavy bombardment of:
Tank and armored vehicle factories
Electronics and precision‑instrument plants
Aerospace facilities
Targeting of universities and research institutes that support engineering and defense
Kharkiv is a top‑tier target because it is an engineering and military‑production hub.

๐ŸŒ† Sumy — Moderate to High Interest
Sumy is close to the Russian border and hosts:
Chemical plants
Machinery and pump manufacturing
Energy‑sector equipment

Russia has:
Launched incursions and shelling in the region
Targeted industrial sites and energy infrastructure
Attempted to destabilize the area early in the war
But unlike Kharkiv, Sumy has not been a sustained territorial objective.

๐ŸŒ† Chernihiv — Strategic but Less Industrially Targeted
Chernihiv is more of a logistical and geographic target than an industrial one.
Russia’s interest has focused on:
Using the region as a corridor toward Kyiv
Pressuring northern Ukraine
Destroying infrastructure to hinder mobility
Its light industry (textiles, food processing) is not a major Russian objective.

๐ŸŒ† Poltava — High Interest Due to Energy
Poltava sits on one of Ukraine’s key oil and natural gas regions.
Russia has shown interest by:
Targeting gas infrastructure
Striking energy‑related facilities
Attempting to disrupt Ukraine’s domestic fuel production
Control of Poltava’s energy assets would be strategically valuable, but Russia has not attempted a major ground push toward the city.

๐ŸŒ† Dnipro — Very High Interest
Dnipro is one of the most important industrial cities in Ukraine, especially for:
Rocketry and missile production (Yuzhmash)
Steel and metallurgy
Pipes and heavy machinery

Russia has:
Conducted repeated missile strikes on aerospace and industrial facilities
Attempted to disrupt logistics hubs feeding the eastern front
Targeted bridges and rail nodes
Dnipro is a critical strategic target, though Russia has not been able to approach it on land.

๐ŸŒ† Zaporizhzhia — Extremely High Interest
Zaporizhzhia is a major industrial and energy hub, including:
Motor Sich (aircraft engines)
Zaporizhstal (steel)
DniproHES (hydropower)
Proximity to the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (occupied since 2022)

Russia has shown:
Strong interest in capturing the entire oblast
Continuous bombardment of industrial sites
Attempts to advance toward the city from the south
This region is one of Russia’s top strategic priorities after Donbas.

๐Ÿงฉ Summary Table
                                                                                   

๐Ÿงญ In short
Yes — Russia has shown significant interest in several of Ukraine’s northern and central industrial hubs, especially Kharkiv, Dnipro, Zaporizhzhia, and Poltava. These regions matter because they support Ukraine’s defense industry, energy independence, and logistics.

If you want, I can also map:
which industries Russia has targeted most heavily,
how Ukraine has relocated or protected industrial capacity,
or how these regions compare to Donbas in economic weight.


Is it resonable for me to suspect Russia has been trying to destroy industries it had itself built up?

Yes — it’s entirely reasonable to think about this, and many analysts argue that Russia has been destroying parts of the very industrial ecosystem it once helped build in Ukraine. The key is understanding why: Russia’s wartime objectives today are very different from its Soviet‑era goals, and destroying Ukrainian industry now serves strategic purposes that outweigh any historical investment.

Below is a clear, structured way to think about it.

๐Ÿงญ Why It Is Reasonable to Suspect This
๐Ÿงจ 1. Russia’s current goal is to weaken Ukraine’s ability to function as a modern state
Industrial capacity is not just economic — it’s:

military production
logistics
energy independence
tax revenue
national resilience

From that perspective, destroying Ukrainian industry is a strategic objective, even if Russia originally built much of it during the Soviet era.

๐Ÿญ 2. Most of Ukraine’s heavy industry was built under the USSR — but Russia no longer sees it as “its own”
During the Soviet period:

Donbas coal mines
Dnipro’s rocket factories
Kharkiv’s tank and machinery plants
Zaporizhzhia’s aircraft engine plants

…were all part of a single integrated Soviet industrial system.

After 1991, these assets became Ukrainian, not Russian.
From Moscow’s perspective today, they are:

potential sources of Ukrainian military strength
symbols of Ukrainian independence
infrastructure supporting Western alignment

So the logic has flipped: what was once “ours” is now “theirs.”

๐ŸŽฏ 3. Russia has repeatedly targeted Ukrainian industrial sites
This is not speculation — it’s observable.

Examples:
Kharkiv: repeated strikes on tank factories, electronics plants, and research institutes.
Dnipro: missile attacks on Yuzhmash (rocket/missile production).
Zaporizhzhia: strikes on Motor Sich (aircraft engines) and steel plants.
Poltava region: attacks on oil and gas infrastructure.
Donbas: destruction of mines, steelworks, and chemical plants during fighting.

These are not random hits — they align with a strategy of deindustrializing Ukraine’s war‑supporting capacity.

๐Ÿ”ฅ 4. Russia has also destroyed infrastructure in territories it occupies
This is one of the strongest indicators.

In occupied areas, Russia has:
stripped factories for parts
shut down mines
dismantled equipment
rerouted production to Russia
allowed industrial towns to collapse

If Russia intended to preserve these industries for its own use, it would not allow this level of degradation.

This suggests the priority is control, not preservation.

๐Ÿงฉ 5. Strategic destruction is common in modern warfare
Russia is not unique in this.

When a state wants to:
weaken an opponent
prevent future resistance
reduce economic independence

…it often targets industrial capacity, even if it once invested in it.

The logic is:
“If we can’t control it, it’s better that it doesn’t exist.”

๐Ÿงญ So is your suspicion reasonable?
Yes. Very much so.  

Russia’s wartime strategy clearly includes:
degrading Ukraine’s industrial base
destroying military‑relevant production
crippling energy and logistics infrastructure

The fact that Russia originally built much of this infrastructure during the Soviet era does not contradict its current incentives. The geopolitical context has changed completely.

If you want to go deeper
I can also explore:
which industries Russia has targeted most systematically
how Ukraine has relocated or rebuilt industrial capacity
how Soviet industrial geography shaped today’s war
whether Russia’s actions resemble “scorched earth” strategy
Just tell me which angle interests you.


What kinds of economic activity does Western Ukraine normally host?

Western Ukraine has always had a very different economic profile from the Donbas or the big industrial belt of the east. Instead of coal, steel, and heavy machinery, the west leans toward agriculture, food processing, light industry, cross‑border trade, and increasingly tech and services. It’s a region shaped by its geography, its history with Central Europe, and its distance from the Soviet heavy‑industry core.

Here’s a clear, structured picture.

๐ŸŒพ 1. Agriculture and Food Production
Western Ukraine is one of the country’s most fertile and diversified agricultural zones.

Key outputs
Grains (wheat, barley, rye)

Corn
Sugar beets
Potatoes
Dairy and cheese
Meat and poultry
Fruits and berries

Why it matters
The region has many small and medium farms, unlike the giant agro‑holdings of central Ukraine. It also hosts a lot of food‑processing plants, especially in Lviv, Ternopil, and Ivano‑Frankivsk.

๐Ÿงต 2. Light Industry and Manufacturing
Western Ukraine specializes in industries that don’t require massive Soviet‑era infrastructure.

Examples
Clothing and textiles
Footwear
Furniture
Plastics
Household goods
Packaging
Automotive components (especially in Lviv and Zakarpattia)

Many European companies have opened factories here because of:
proximity to the EU
lower labor costs
good transport links
This has made the region a growing near‑shoring hub for Central European supply chains.

๐Ÿ› ️ 3. Small‑Scale Machinery and Equipment

Not heavy machinery like Kharkiv or Dnipro, but rather:
agricultural machinery
pumps and compressors
woodworking equipment
small mechanical components
Cities like Lutsk and Rivne have clusters of such production.

๐Ÿงญ 4. Cross‑Border Trade and Logistics

Western Ukraine borders Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania, so it naturally hosts:
customs and logistics hubs
warehousing
trucking and transport companies
cross‑border retail and wholesale trade

Lviv, Uzhhorod, and Chernivtsi are especially active in this sector.

๐ŸŽ“ 5. Education, IT, and Services
Lviv in particular has become a major IT and outsourcing center, with thousands of programmers and tech firms.

Service sectors include:
finance
design and creative industries
tourism
hospitality
education (Lviv and Chernivtsi universities are major institutions)

This is one of the fastest‑growing parts of the western economy.

๐Ÿ”️ 6. Tourism and Recreation
The Carpathian region (Ivano‑Frankivsk, Zakarpattia) is a tourism magnet.

Activities include:
skiing
hiking
spa resorts
cultural tourism
wine production (especially in Zakarpattia)

Tourism has been disrupted by the war but remains a long‑term economic pillar.

๐Ÿงฉ 7. Energy (Modest but Growing)

Western Ukraine has:
small natural gas fields
hydropower in the Carpathians
growing wind and solar projects

It’s not an energy powerhouse like Poltava or Dnipro, but it’s diversifying.

๐Ÿงญ In short
Western Ukraine’s economy is lighter, more diversified, more EU‑oriented, and less dependent on Soviet‑era heavy industry. It’s built around:

agriculture
food processing
light manufacturing
cross‑border trade
IT and services
tourism

This makes it structurally different from the industrial east — and more resilient in some ways, because it’s not tied to giant, vulnerable industrial complexes.

If you want, I can map these economic zones onto the outline map you have open in your browser, or compare Western Ukraine’s economy to Central Europe’s.