Been trying to pin down how Iran got to be such a different country. Below, PART 1, looking
at migration from the East!
Copilot:
Is Turkey considered part of Europe?
🌍 Turkey occupies a fascinating geopolitical crossroads—part of its territory lies in Europe, and the rest sprawls across Asia. Here's how it breaks down:
Geographically: About 3% of Turkey's landmass is in southeastern Europe, in a region called East Thrace, while the remaining 97% lies in Anatolia, which is in Asia.
Culturally and Politically:
Turkey has deep cultural ties to both Europe and Asia.
It's a member of several European organizations like the Council of Europe and has a long-standing relationship with the European Union, including a customs union and a candidate status for EU membership (though that process has stalled).
📌 So, while most of its land is in Asia, Turkey is often considered a transcontinental country, with historical, cultural, and political ties that root it firmly in both worlds.
It’s one of those rare places that can claim the best of both continents. Would you like to explore how this blend influences Turkish cuisine, architecture, or politics?
Since when has Turkey enjoyed these boundaries?
Turkey’s current boundaries were largely established in the early 20th century following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish War of Independence. Here's a quick timeline of key moments that shaped its borders:
🗺️ Treaty of Sèvres (1920)
Proposed a partition of Anatolia, heavily favoring Allied powers.
Turkish nationalists rejected it, sparking the War of Independence.
📜 Treaty of Lausanne (1923)
Replaced Sèvres and officially recognized the Republic of Turkey.
Defined most of Turkey’s modern borders, including with Greece and Bulgaria.
🤝 Treaty of Ankara (1921)
Settled the border with Syria (then under French mandate).
Later adjustments led to the annexation of Hatay Province in 1939, which Syria still disputes.
🌍 Other Treaties
Borders with Iran were confirmed in 1937.
Boundaries with the former Soviet Union (now Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia) were defined in 1921.
So, Turkey has enjoyed its current territorial shape since 1939, with the bulk of its borders recognized internationally by 1923. Want to explore how these borders have influenced Turkey’s role in global politics or regional dynamics?
Tell me about the Ottoman Empire. Is this where Turkey gets its language?
Absolutely, Louise — the Ottoman Empire is a major chapter in Turkey’s story, and it played a huge role in shaping the Turkish language as we know it today. Let’s unpack both the empire and the language roots:
🏰 The Ottoman Empire: A Quick Overview
Founded around 1299 by Osman I, a Turkic chieftain in Anatolia.
Expanded rapidly, eventually spanning Southeast Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.
Capital: Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul), captured in 1453 by Mehmed II.
Peak: Under Suleiman the Magnificent (1520–1566), the empire became a global powerhouse.
Decline: Began in the late 17th century due to internal strife, wars, and European colonial pressure.
Dissolution: After World War I, the empire collapsed, and the Republic of Turkey was founded in 1923.
🗣️ Turkish Language Origins
Rooted in Central Asia: Turkish belongs to the Oghuz branch of the Turkic language family, which originated in the steppes of Central Asia thousands of years ago.
Early Influences: As Turkic tribes migrated westward, they absorbed elements from Persian, Arabic, and even Chinese.
Ottoman Turkish: During the empire, the elite used a version of Turkish heavily infused with Arabic and Persian vocabulary, written in the Arabic script6.
Everyday Speech: Common folk spoke a simpler, more native form of Turkish called kaba Türkçe (“rough Turkish”), which preserved older Turkic roots.
✍️ Modern Turkish: A Language Reborn
After the empire fell, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk led sweeping reforms:
Replaced the Arabic script with a Latin-based alphabet in 1928.
Purged many Arabic and Persian loanwords.
Revived older Turkic words and simplified grammar3.
So yes — Turkey’s language evolved from the Ottoman era, but it also underwent a dramatic transformation in the 20th century to become the modern Turkish spoken today.
Would you like to see how Ottoman Turkish looked compared to modern Turkish? Or maybe explore how these changes affected Turkish literature and identity?
How did Islam come to infiltrate Turkish culture?
Islam didn’t just infiltrate Turkish culture—it became one of its defining threads, woven through centuries of migration, empire-building, and spiritual evolution. Let’s trace how this transformation unfolded:
🛡️ Arrival Through Conquest and Migration
7th–8th centuries: Arab Muslim armies began pushing into Anatolia during the early Islamic conquests.
11th century: The Seljuk Turks, a powerful Turkic dynasty from Central Asia, embraced Islam and brought it westward into Anatolia.
Battle of Manzikert (1071): A pivotal moment when the Seljuks defeated the Byzantines, opening Anatolia to Turkic Muslim settlement.
🏰 Ottoman Empire: Islam as Statecraft
1299–1923: The Ottoman Empire institutionalized Islam as the state religion.
The Sultan also held the title of Caliph, positioning the empire as the spiritual leader of the Muslim world.
Islamic law (Sharia) governed daily life, and religious scholars (ulema) held significant political power.
Mosques, madrasas (religious schools), and Sufi lodges became cultural and educational hubs.
🧘 Sufism and Spiritual Identity
Sufi orders like the Mevlevi (Whirling Dervishes) and Bektaşi played a major role in shaping Turkish Islam.
These mystical traditions emphasized love, poetry, and personal connection to the divine—think Rumi, whose verses still echo in Turkish hearts.
🏛️ Secular Shift and Cultural Persistence
1923: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk founded the Republic of Turkey, abolishing the Caliphate and enforcing secularism.
Religious institutions were nationalized, and Islamic law was replaced with European-style civil codes.
Despite these reforms, Islam remained deeply embedded in language, architecture, festivals, and social customs.
🎨 Cultural Legacy Today
Mosques like the Blue Mosque and Süleymaniye are architectural masterpieces.
Ramadan and Eid are widely celebrated.
Islamic values like hospitality, modesty, and respect for elders continue to shape Turkish social norms.
Islam didn’t just arrive—it evolved alongside Turkish identity, adapting and influencing everything from politics to poetry. Would you like to explore how Islamic art or cuisine reflects this fusion?
How was Turkey established in the first place, and what were the initial boundaries?
🇹🇷 Turkey emerged from the ashes of the Ottoman Empire after a dramatic period of war, revolution, and reform. Here's how it all unfolded:
🏛️ Establishment of the Republic of Turkey
Post–World War I Collapse: The Ottoman Empire was defeated and occupied by Allied forces. The 1920 Treaty of Sèvres proposed partitioning Ottoman lands, sparking outrage among Turkish nationalists.
Turkish War of Independence (1919–1923): Led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Turkish forces resisted occupation and rejected the Treaty of Sèvres. They fought against Greek, Armenian, French, and British forces in Anatolia.
Grand National Assembly: Formed in Ankara in 1920, it declared itself the legitimate government and passed the Fundamental Law in 1921, asserting national sovereignty.
Republic Proclaimed: On October 29, 1923, the Republic of Turkey was officially founded, with Ankara as its capital and Atatürk as its first president.
🗺️ Initial Boundaries of Turkey
Turkey’s borders were defined through a series of treaties:
Treaty Year Boundary Outcome
Treaty of Lausanne 1923 Replaced Sèvres; established most of Turkey’s modern borders, including with Greece and Bulgaria
Treaty of Moscow & Kars 1921 Defined borders with Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia
Treaty of Ankara 1921 Settled border with Syria (then under French mandate)
Treaty with Iran 1937 Confirmed the 499-km border originally set in 1639
Hatay Province Annexation 1939 Added Hatay to Turkey; Syria still disputes this
Turkey’s final territorial shape was largely settled by 1939, though most of its internationally recognized borders were in place by 1923.
Would you like to explore how Atatürk’s reforms reshaped Turkish society after independence? Or maybe dive into how these borders influenced Turkey’s foreign policy?
What was in place when the Ottoman Empire arrived??
When the Ottoman Empire began to rise in the late 13th century, Anatolia was a patchwork of fractured powers and fading empires—a region ripe for transformation. Here's what was in place:
🏛️ Political Landscape Before the Ottomans
Byzantine Empire: Once dominant, the Byzantines had lost much of Anatolia after the Battle of Manzikert in 1071, when the Seljuk Turks defeated them and opened the region to Turkic migration2.
Seljuk Sultanate of Rum: A powerful Turkic state that ruled much of central Anatolia from the late 11th century until its decline in the early 14th century due to Mongol invasions and internal fragmentation.
Turkic Beyliks: After the Seljuks weakened, Anatolia splintered into independent principalities (beyliks), such as the Karamanids, Germiyanids, and Aydınids. These were often rivals, and their disunity created an opening for the Ottomans.
Mongol Influence: The Ilkhanate, a Mongol successor state, exerted control over eastern Anatolia, especially after the Battle of Köse Dağ in 1243, which made the Seljuks vassals to the Mongols.
🕌 Cultural and Religious Landscape
Islamic Influence: Islam had become deeply rooted in Anatolia through the Seljuks and Sufi orders like the Mevlevis (Whirling Dervishes). Mosques, madrasas, and caravanserais dotted the region.
Christian Communities: Despite the rise of Islam, Greek Orthodox Christians, Armenians, and Assyrians still lived throughout Anatolia, especially in urban centers and mountainous regions.
Multilingual Society: Turkish, Persian, Arabic, Greek, and Armenian were all spoken, reflecting the region’s diversity.
🛠️ Social and Economic Conditions
Trade Routes: Anatolia was a crossroads of Silk Road commerce, linking Europe and Asia. Cities like Konya, Sivas, and Kayseri were bustling hubs.
Agriculture and Craftsmanship: Villages thrived on farming, while cities were known for textiles, ceramics, and metalwork.
🌟 The Ottoman Opportunity
The Ottomans, a small frontier principality founded by Osman I around 1299, emerged in northwestern Anatolia near the Byzantine border. Their strategic location allowed them to expand into weakened Byzantine lands and absorb rival beyliks, eventually forging a unified empire from the fractured remains of Anatolia5.
Would you like to explore how the Ottomans absorbed these beyliks or how their early conquests shaped their imperial identity?
So the Ottoman Empire overan the Byzantine Empire?
Absolutely — the Ottoman Empire decisively overran the Byzantine Empire, culminating in one of the most iconic moments in world history: the Fall of Constantinople in 1453.
Here’s how it unfolded:
⚔️ The Long Decline of Byzantium
The Byzantine Empire, once the eastern half of the Roman Empire, had been shrinking for centuries due to internal strife, crusader invasions, and rising regional powers.
By the 14th century, it was reduced to a few scattered territories, with Constantinople as its last major stronghold.
🛡️ Rise of the Ottomans
The Ottomans, a Turkic dynasty founded by Osman I around 1299, began expanding into Byzantine lands in Anatolia and the Balkans2.
They steadily absorbed rival Turkish beyliks and defeated Byzantine forces in a series of wars from the late 13th century onward.
🏰 The Final Blow: Fall of Constantinople
In May 1453, Sultan Mehmed II led a massive siege against Constantinople.
Despite the city's legendary walls and desperate defense, the Ottomans breached them using gunpowder artillery, including the famous Basilica cannon.
The city fell on May 29, 1453, marking the end of the Byzantine Empire and the beginning of Ottoman dominance in the eastern Mediterranean2.
🌍 Aftermath
Constantinople was renamed Istanbul and became the new capital of the Ottoman Empire.
The fall is often seen as the symbolic end of the Middle Ages and the start of the Renaissance, as many Greek scholars fled westward, bringing classical knowledge to Europe.
It’s a dramatic story of empires colliding and history pivoting. Want to explore how the Ottomans transformed Istanbul or how Byzantine culture lived on in unexpected ways?
Did the Turks arrive from anywhere, or do they just appear in the historical record?
The Turks didn’t just pop into history—they rode in from the steppes of Central Asia, bringing with them a rich nomadic culture and a knack for empire-building that would reshape entire regions.
🐎 Origins in the Eurasian Steppes
The earliest Turkic peoples likely emerged in the Altai-Sayan region, near modern-day Mongolia and southern Siberia.
They were equestrian nomads, living in yurts, herding livestock, and mastering mounted warfare.
The Göktürks, founded in 552 CE, were the first to use the name “Türk” as a political identity.
🧭 Migration and Expansion
Between the 4th and 11th centuries, Turkic tribes migrated westward across Eurasia.
They formed empires like the Uyghur Khaganate, Kara-Khanid Khanate, and Seljuks, and settled in regions from China to the Balkans.
This wasn’t a single mass migration—it was a wave of movements, often tied to trade, conquest, or fleeing other powers like the Mongols.
🧬 Cultural Fusion and Identity
As they moved, Turkic peoples blended with local cultures, adopting religions like Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity, and influencing art, language, and governance2.
The Seljuks were instrumental in bringing Turkic culture into Anatolia, paving the way for the Ottoman Empire and modern Turkey.
So yes, the Turks arrived—from a vast, windswept homeland—and their journey is one of the most dynamic migrations in world history. Want to explore how their nomadic roots still echo in Turkish traditions today?
Were they in large numbers? That sounds implausible for a nomadic people...
You're absolutely right to question that, Louise — it does seem counterintuitive at first. Nomadic societies are often imagined as small, scattered groups, but the Turkic migrations were anything but modest.
🐫 Nomads, Yes — But Not Sparse
Turkic tribes were organized into confederations and khanates, which could mobilize tens of thousands of warriors and families.
These groups weren’t just wandering aimlessly — they had military discipline, political leadership, and strategic goals, especially during the rise of empires like the Seljuks and later the Ottomans.
The Seljuk Turks, for example, entered Anatolia in the 11th century with large-scale migrations, not just raiding parties. They brought entire communities, including artisans, scholars, and religious leaders.
📈 Numbers and Impact
While exact figures are hard to pin down, historians estimate that:
Hundreds of thousands of Turkic people migrated over centuries.
These migrations were gradual and sustained, not a single wave — think of it more like a tide than a tsunami.
They intermarried with local populations, converted to Islam, and established dynasties, which helped them integrate and expand.
🧬 Why It Worked
Their nomadic lifestyle actually gave them an edge: mobility, adaptability, and resilience.
They were masters of cavalry warfare, which made them formidable in battle and allowed them to conquer and hold territory.
Once settled, they quickly urbanized and built institutions — mosques, schools, markets — that anchored their presence.
So while they started as nomads, they didn’t stay that way for long. Their numbers grew through conquest, settlement, and assimilation. Want to dive into how their nomadic roots influenced Ottoman military strategy or social organization?
Genetically, the Turks were different from the Chinese...
Yes, genetically speaking, Turks and Han Chinese populations are distinct, though they share some ancient connections due to historical migrations across Eurasia.
🧬 Genetic Origins of the Turks
Central Asian Roots: Early Turkic peoples originated in southern Siberia and Mongolia, regions that were also home to other East Eurasian groups like the Xiongnu and Mongols.
Mixed Ancestry: Ancient Turkic populations often had a blend of East Eurasian and West Eurasian DNA. For example:
Proto-Turks and Göktürks showed 60–90% East Eurasian ancestry, depending on the region and era.
Some groups, like the Oghuz Turks, who later migrated to Anatolia, had more West Eurasian features, especially after mixing with local populations.
🧬 Genetic Profile of Modern Turks
Modern Turkish people (in Anatolia) have a predominantly West Eurasian genetic makeup, similar to Southern Europeans and Caucasians.
Studies show:
About 13–22% Central Asian genetic contribution, reflecting Turkic migrations from the 11th century onward.
The rest of the genome is largely derived from indigenous Anatolian, Mediterranean, and Caucasian populations.
🧬 Comparison with Han Chinese
Trait Modern Turks Han Chinese
Primary Ancestry West Eurasian East Eurasian
Y-DNA Haplogroups J2, R1b, R1a O3, C, N
mtDNA Haplogroups H, U, T D, B, F
Genetic Clustering Southern Europe & West Asia East Asia
🌏 Shared Ancient Threads
Both Turks and Chinese populations have traces of ancient steppe ancestry, especially from groups like the Xiongnu and early nomadic empires.
However, language and culture spread faster than genes—so Turkic languages reached far beyond the genetic footprint of their original speakers.
So while the Turks and Chinese may have crossed paths in history, their genetic legacies diverged significantly, shaped by geography, migration, and assimilation. Want to explore how these genetic differences show up in physical traits or historical alliances?
What about the Mongols; these are diferent again. When precisely do they show up in European history?
The Mongols thundered into European history in the early 13th century, and their arrival was nothing short of seismic. Here's how it unfolded:
🐎 First Contact: The Battle of Kalka River (1223)
A Mongol force led by Subutai and Jebe defeated a coalition of Kievan Rus’ princes and Cuman allies near the Sea of Azov.
This was more of a reconnaissance raid than a full invasion, but it sent shockwaves through Eastern Europe.
⚔️ Full-Scale Invasion: 1237–1242
Under Ögedei Khan, Genghis Khan’s successor, the Mongols launched a massive campaign into Europe.
Led by Batu Khan and Subutai, they invaded:
Russia: Sacked cities like Ryazan, Vladimir, and Kiev.
Poland: Won the Battle of Legnica in 1241, defeating a coalition of Polish and German knights.
Hungary: Crushed King Béla IV’s forces at the Battle of Mohi in April 1241, killing up to 25% of Hungary’s population.
🛑 Sudden Withdrawal: 1242
Just as the Mongols were poised to push deeper into Europe, Ögedei Khan died.
Mongol leaders returned to Mongolia to elect a new Great Khan, halting the advance.
🏰 Aftermath and Legacy
The Mongols didn’t conquer Western Europe, but they left behind:
The Golden Horde, which ruled over much of Russia and Eastern Europe for centuries.
A legacy of terror, transformation, and trade—opening up the Silk Road and facilitating cultural exchange between East and West.
Their impact was so profound that some historians argue the Mongol invasions helped shape the rise of modern Russia, the Renaissance, and even the spread of gunpowder into Europe.
Want to explore how Europe responded to this “storm from the East”? Or how Mongol tactics revolutionized warfare?
The Mongols originated furtherEast than the Turks?
Yes, they did — and that geographic distinction is key to understanding their different historical trajectories.
🧭 Geographic Origins
Turks: Originated in the Altai-Sayan region, which straddles southern Siberia, western Mongolia, and eastern Kazakhstan. This area is considered the cradle of early Turkic cultures like the Göktürks and Oghuz.
Mongols: Emerged further east, in the eastern Mongolian Plateau, near the Onon, Kerulen, and Tola Rivers, and the Kentei Mountains. This region is closer to Manchuria and Inner Mongolia, and was historically home to proto-Mongolic tribes like the Donghu, Xianbei, and Khitan.
🧬 Genetic and Cultural Divergence
Turks: Had a mixed East and West Eurasian genetic profile, especially as they migrated westward and intermingled with Persian, Caucasian, and Anatolian populations.
Mongols: Retained a strong East Eurasian genetic identity, especially in their early stages. For example, a 2023 study of a Göktürk royal found 97.7% Northeast Asian ancestry, linking them closely to Manchu, Korean, and Japanese populations.
🐎 Historical Impact
The Turks began migrating westward earlier, establishing empires like the Seljuks and later the Ottomans.
The Mongols, under Genghis Khan, exploded onto the scene in the 13th century, sweeping across Eurasia from their eastern homeland.
So yes — the Mongols originated further east than the Turks, and that shaped everything from their genetics to their imperial ambitions. Want to explore how these origins influenced their military strategies or religious beliefs?
Does the Lena River flow into the Kara Sea?
🌊 Not quite — the Lena River doesn’t flow into the Kara Sea, but into another Arctic body of water: the Laptev Sea.
Here’s a breakdown of how things connect up north:
Lena River: One of Siberia’s great rivers, it starts in the Baikal Mountains and travels over 4,400 km northward.
Mouth: It empties into the Laptev Sea, which lies east of the Kara Sea, along Russia’s Arctic coastline.
Kara Sea: This sea receives runoff from other major rivers like the Ob, Yenisei, Pyasina, and Taz, but not the Lena.
Think of the Laptev, Kara, and Barents Seas as siblings stretching along the northern coast of Siberia — each with its own distinct drainage systems.
Would you like a visual map of how these Arctic rivers and seas are laid out? Or maybe explore how these waterways have shaped Russia’s climate and trade routes?
